| All for Sikhism |
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| Written by hindustantimes.com, Gagandeep Singh | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sunday, 23 September 2007 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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EMINENT SIKH scholar Roop Singh, who is working as Additional Secretary to Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC) and personal Secretary to SGPC President Avtar Singh Makkar, has authored many books on Sikhism.
Harpal Singh
said:
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My father was very keen that I should learn anything and everything about Sikhism in depth.
| It is believed that so called Golden Temple was build during the times of Guru Arjan Dev ji. Which means/implies that there has to be some references of this so called 'Golden Temple' within SGGS - if at all if it is referenced, is it called Golden Temple!!!. Please note that the word 'Harimander' is mentioned within SGGS - but is it at least mentioned by 2nd and 4th Gurus and that reference is not refereeing to 'Harimander Sahib/ Golden Temple' - but ' the place where a Sikh need to install his Guru/God within him/her self'. The word 'Harimander' has been misquoted by many in place of 'Golden Temple'. Is there any reference in SGGS, where it references about presence of Amrit in so called Amrit Sarovar or any reference to the fact of the Dukh Bhanjan Beri. Is the name 'Golden Temple' appropriate within the context to Sikh religion - what does the name convey or reflects. Any responsible person within SGPC needs to revisit these questions. The reference ' The palace of the Lord God is so beautiful. Within it, there are gems, rubies, pearls and flawless diamonds' - does this expression matches with Sikh way of thinking. Why God needs a man made palace - where God can make and destroy endless temples of this kind. We need to revisit on our thoughts - what we are doing, what we are writing, the kind of life we are living - does it in sync with the the life our Gurujis live and would approve of living. It was a great thought of a father for his son - to be a Sikh - as Sikh scholar - are we the kind of Sikh which our Gurus laid their lives for us. Here I am not referring to Mr. Roop Singh - but to each one of us - we need to look wihtin ourselves - where we stand in terms of calling ourself Sikhs. |
Annonymous
said:
| Mr. Harpal Singh, Are you a Sikh, or do you not understand what Sikh philosophy is? |
Harpal Singh
said:
| My dear ask same question to yourself |
meharban singh
said:
| S. Roop singh ji is very big scholar. As a sikh, i appreciate his time (or any one who is contributing their times for research) and his contribution to Sikh panth. |
sevak
said:
| i think Mr. Harpal Singh is just creating a non-issue, hopefully he can spend some time on something worthwhile. |
sevak
said:
| ...and kudos to Mr. Roop Singh for all his seva towards the Sikh kaum. |
Harpal Singh
said:
| It is pity and shame that as Sikhs, we have to borrow foreign word – Golden Temple - for our highest seat of authority and our scholars are unable to find an appropriate name for the same within true Sikh philosophy/way of life. The word Golden Temple only reflects – sign of materialistic mentality and absentness of spirituality – which is a true picture of mainstream Sikhs. What we need is true scholars who understand Sikh philosophy at its core, and are our leaders and guides. |
Mohinder Singh
said:
| I cannot agree more with Harpal Singh. Harimandir Sahib is not appropriate name and it should be called only "DARBAR SAHIB". As Churches are called Churches, Mosques are called Mosques, and Mandirs in English are called temples. But Sikh Gurudwaras should be called Gurudwaras. When people ask, we should not say we worship at temple. We should always say we worship at Gurudwara. And if they ask further what it means, we should explain kindly that Gurudwara means Guru's home. Guru's schools where we go, bow to our Shabad Guru, read it and learn the message of the Shabad. But unfortunately, today's Gurudwaras are not doing anything Guru Nanak wanted Sikhs to learn from these institutes. Ragis just recites Kirtan, no shabad vichaar, sangat comes, kids make noise, women sit in the corner, men sit against the walls, take parshad, eat langar and Bole so nihaal, sat siri akaal... Pathi singhs says, who cannot read Gurmukhi should only recites WaheGuru through out the day. Guru Said, Jo Prabh Ko MilBo chahe Khoj Shabad main Leh. Guru never said recites WaheGuru all day and you shall find it. Guru Gave Us Guru Granth Sahib and these illiterate Pathis, So-called Sants Mahatmas, gave us mantras. We need to learn the meaning of Sikhi, the way Guru Nanak Started. Today we have Guru Granth Sahib ji. We should not wonder around to find a Sant who can tell us Guru's Word in Summary. We should read bani ourselves and to understand the meaning of the words, we should read encyclopedia, I think written by Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, to understand the bani ourselves. Guru Nanak wrote Bani in the common man’s language so he could read it. Pandits wanted Guru Nanak to write Bani in Sanskrit, but Guru Nanak wrote it in Gurmukhi, because Guru knew, these pandits will not teach Sanskrit to common people, and Guru wanted every common man/woman to read Gurubani. "Updesh cho varna ko sanjha" Bhul Chuk di Khima ! Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa||Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh || |
Sardara Singh
said:
| Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh. I am one hundred percent agrree with Bhai Mohinder Singh ji. Each and every word he mentioned is correct. The Gurdwara Managing Committees should preach Sikhisam. Employ Educated Granthies who can prononciate properly and explain the meaning the meaning of Shabads. |
prithi pal
said:
| Guru Fateh, I agree Harmandir Sahib should be called Darbar Sahib and we should not call it Golden Temple. There is a need for Schools to train young sikhs intrested in Gurbani to learn and sing Gurbani.The seleced youngsters should be given handsome scholarship by SGPC. In most parts of India where i travel,the sikhs living there are ashamed of punjab because majority of the so called sikhs coming from that state are clean shaven (patits) and it is shocking that even Akali Dal has office bearers who are patitis. |
aamsikh
said:
| many modern sikhs usually under the influence of communist culture only think themselves to be litrate and forward thinking. they acquire bookish knowledge which is usually devoid of devotional factor. Religion is not only bookish knowledge, it also has devotional part.They say Garanthi should be a litrate person, what a non sense, how one can be a garanthi if he can not read.In the older times it used to only the Garathi in the village who was litrate. name of a place is for the understanding of different people,do not many countries have more than one name ,India bharat hindstan are same uk england britain denotes same place,usa and america. so its the spirit which implies the most. mostly sikhs who have migrated from panjab are most critical of the who are left behind.if they are so sincere why don't they go back and put the things on right path.they did not face the black days there,they do not know how dangerous it was in those days to keep a flowing beard and due to this fear factor most young men became patit.so stop critisising from a distance, if so sincerego there have your say and face the music. |
Gopal Dhami
said:
| Guru Fatey.Kisnu Kheyhey Nanka,Sab Kusch Apo Aap. |
Satwant Singh
said:
| I note that the Gianis who travel out of Punjab alays preach that the Sikhs must keep hair and follow the Gurus' directions. What I find most suprising is that in Punjab every other Sikh that i see has cut his hair. they do not folow the directions of the Gurus' but instead make a mockery of it. shouldn't these Gianis take of the sacred land than be frauds by preaching to the world outside Punjab. Smoking is the order of the day. when I bring my participants to Punajb I tell them that smoking is a taboo but when they see the Sikhs smoking, I feel totally ashamed that the Sikhs in PUnjab are doing what we the Sikhs in our country dont do. How shameful. Why is the Punjab government/SGPC doing nothing about it. |
prithi pal
said:
| wahe guru ji ka khalsa wahe guru ji ki fateh i totally agree with Satwant Singh's observation. Punjab (india) is no more citadel of sikhism.Y may find more sikhs in London then in Jallandhar or Ludhiana.The akalis have sent their children abroad who are all clean shaven. The 'cunning' Sikhs take advantage of the turban,they wear it to grab top posts but let their children cut their hair.e.g Manmohan Singh,montek singh ahulwalia,so called rajas of patiala and kapurthala,members of the sgpc,several patits heading the youth akali dal.Manmohan Singh is just there because he is wearing the turban.Same was the case with.s.gill,who became cec of india because he wears turban.Gen Jagit Singh aurora hero of 1971 war was hailed the sikh role model but his sons have forsaken sikhism after taking advantage of the religion Is this the way we are repaying our debt to the tenth guru. |
Mohinder Singh
said:
| I was born in Punjab, India and came to USA at the age of 17. When I came, I tried to keep my hair but I could not keep it. I led my life without hair for 12 years. I saw many ups and downs in life. All along I always missed my hair. Late in life, but I went to college. I was in my third year, when a Sikh from India came to do his masters at my college. He would wear cap and neatly tie his beard but did not cut his hair. Then came the career fair and at least 30 Indians gave interviews and 29 of those got hire for the summer internship. But my Sikh friend didn't get the internship. He was heart broken. I was the only another Sikh in college, though I had my hair cut. He came to me in the evening and wanted my honest opinion if, in future, he will face same kind of problems to get a job. He asked me if he should cut his hair. Even I had my hair cut, I never gave anyone advise to cut his hair. I explained to him that in small cities this problem occurs but in big cities, big companies don't care about all this. When he left that evening after talking to me, I felt that he is strongly thinking about cutting his hair. Next morning when I met him, I told him, you are not alone anymore my friend, I am also going to keep my hair long. I just didn't say that to make him happy or anything but I really kept my kesh. Then we parted over the summer holidays and when we returned, I had full flowing beard and turban. He became very happy to see me keeping my promise. Then he would advise me to tie my beard as it looks little neat that way and easily fits in. I said no, I will keep my beard flowing as it is. Now it has been almost three years that I have grown my KESH back. My friend is working with some big company in Virginia. He is glad that he never cut his hair. I am also proud and thankful to Akaal-Purkh for giving me another opportunity. As far as Sikh children smoking in Punjab, this is because of parents are trying to be westernize. They don't mind if their sons want to cut hair as long as they are doing good in schools. They don't mind if their kids drink occasionally as long as they are working and come home on time. Parents don't mind if their daughters want to marry Hindu boys OR Sikhs boys but with no long hair. Mostly girls don't want to marry Amritdhari Singhs. This all is happening because parents are not putting any efforts. Kids don't learn anything in their primary schools. Good schools are either Christian schools, or English medium school, where they don't offer Punjabi as a mandatory subject. Women are busy with beauty parlors and mens (who are making decent living) are busy drinking and socializing. Even poorer gather enough money to buy a decent whiskey. Amazing!! Practicing religions is thing of the past. Those who are trying to do anything, people make fun of them. Now let’s come to the topic. Blind faith does not mean you are following a Sikhism way of life. Sikh religion is faith of reason and intellect. Guru Nanak never adopted anything blindly. He always questioned those who tried to convince him to do certain things, e.g. rasam of janaou, worshiping sun, praying in mosque or at Mecca, Rozas, Varat, Tapp, Yog, Sidhis, etc. Now days, Sikhs want to do anything but read Guru Granth Sahib Ji. They don’t want to read it and understand what Shabad-Guru is saying. They want to meet some SANT-BRAHMGIANI as soon as they can to make their offerings, and feel bliss. It does not work like that. So far in the villages of Punjab, those pathis only know what pathi before them taught them. No new research, same those fake stories from the past. As Dhana bhagat found God from the Pathar. What they don’t want to do is read what bhagat Dhanna wrote in Shabad that is included in Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We heard so many stories about Guru Nanak reaching places in one second. If that was case then Guru Nanak should not have spent about 26 years of life traveling around Hindustan. If Guru Nanak wanted to show only the miracles then he would have finished his work in less than a month. What was the need to be away from home for nearly 26 years of his life? People want to listen to stories and go home. They don’t want to listen to the truth of what Shabad-Guru is saying. Bani will not butter up these people’s ego and serve their purpose. This is a Dhur Ki Bani. It will only speak nothing but truth. You like it or you don’t. There are very few honest Kathakaars who can translate Shabad-Guru with utmost honesty. Usually kathakaars are just doing their job to make money. If you really want to listen to someone good, there’s a Prof. Dharshan Singh Ji. Bhul Chuk Di khima !! Mohinder Singh |
Balwinder Singh
said:
| Mohinder Singh good job My self had cut hair for 45 year 2year ago It came from inside me and I did'nt cut hair & become vegitarian Like our guru expected out of a sikh. Because I listen to Kathakaaars for past 4 year Guru Ji said keep reading and listing. |
Mohinder Singh
said:
| Balwinder singh Ji! Fateh parwan karni! Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa|| Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh|| I am glad that "der aaye darusat aaye" about your hair. As far as becoming vegetarian, I don't think our Guru, Shri Guru Granth Sahib, says anything about becoming vegetarian. Don't take me wrong. I myself is vegetarian. I started eating meat in America and I quit it because I thought vegetables and daallan are easy to digest. It is okay to be vegetarian but Siri Guru Granth Sahib does not preach to become vegetarian. Guru Nanak is not with us in human form. His light is residing in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We should only and only listen and follow to what Guru Granth is offering. I would recommend that you read articles about meat on "w w w dot sikhmarg dot com" I hope you can read Punjabi. Guru expected us to be a Khalsa, but we can eat according to what our health demands. Guru ji left that choice for Sikhs. If you don't like to meat and want to keep vegetarian diet that is okay and if you like to eat meat that is fine as well with Guru. Guru Nanak Sahib was very honest to humanity and Sikhs. That is the reason he said, "Baba aakhe haazia shubh aamla bajho dono roye". Guru siad "subh aamla bajho" he didn't say those who eat will not be saved. Sikh should only and only follow Guru Granth Sahib. On every other literature, Sikh must use his intellect to decide if that writing is compatible with Guru Granth Sahib or not. It is very easy to decide for Sikhs that Bible, Geeta, Quran or any ohter holy book is not compatiable with Guru Granth Sahib. Many fake books have been introduced in Sikh Dharma those are not compatible with Guru Granth at all. We Sikhs will respect any book that has our Gurus Name in them. When we read the stories of Guru Gobind Singh or Guru Nanak Sahib’s, we are bound to respect them and we believe they are really the real stories but that is not the truth. Many books will say that Guru Hargobind Sahib, Guru Har Rai Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh Saheb did hunt, later will say that Gurus were vegetarian. Why would they hunt but not eat? Didn’t Guru Gobind Singh Sahib and his Sikhs ate horses when they were surrounded by the Moguls in Killa Anandput Sahib? This issue of Sikhs not allowed to eat meat came from those books. Authors of those sakhi books were converted Hindus. Who adopted Sikhism but could not study Guru Granth Sahib during Wars. Read Guru Granth Sahib Ji yourself and you will find that Guru is not saying anything about your eating habbits. Yes Guru did say, "Haq praya nanka suyar us gaye". Eating that belongs to others is like eating pork for Muslims and eating cow for Hindus. For Sikhs eating that belong to other is like not listening to Guru’s word !! Bhul Chuk di Khimma!! If you are in Canada or USA, email me and we can chat over the phone. Please check the website I mentioned above. My email is: mohinder underscore singh at hot mail dot com. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa|| Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh || |
Harpal Singh
said:
| I started the discussion to draw attention to the fact that people who are representing us in the world – SGPC - quoting what they write in their books – what is their level of understanding of our religion. I was expecting a more frank discussion on this topic – but this has taken a different turn for good reasons. Current situation on understanding of Sikh religion among the Sikhs could be described in the words of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Kali kati raje Kasai dharam pankh kar uttariya, Kur amavas sach chandarma dise nahi keh chariya Hau bhal vichunni hoi, andhere rahu na koi" (There is no piety left in this land of barbaric rulers, the dark forces have eclipsed the moon of truthfulness. It is difficult to find the right path in these dark times. ( it is beautiful long Shabad) – Vichunni – means twisted situation – word used for a wooden bed ( chaarpai) gets twisted/uneven during rainy days ). The beauty of Sikh religion is that it is optimistic – it gives solution for each and every situation a seeker might have to go through to follow path of a true religion. It will be a hard way – one has to work as hard has one has to do to earn his/her livelihood. One has to prepare as he/she is going to a war – to fight 5 bad elements one has to overcome – lust, anger, greed, attachment and ego. One has to make calculated effort to work hard to seek knowledge from where one could find – this is the path you have to travel on you own. There is so much resources available - from where can find this knowledge – we don’t have to shift blame to Punjab – the religious situation may be grim within Punjab. One needs determination of modern Sikhs heroes like Mohinder Singh ji – courage, personal integrity, commitment, willingness to struggle weaknesses within ourselves and come out as winner – this struggle is ongoing. On another topic -we will find lots of people justify eating meat is allowed within Sikh religion - but 'Dya ( showing consideration of other weaker beings ) is one of the most important aspect of Sikh religion - IN FACT it is very clearly stated that RELIGION IS BORN OUT OF DYA ( Dhol Dharma Dya ka Poot ) - how one can justify killing ( intentional killing - which includes killing for food ) is allowed within Sikh religion. One needs to differentiate between 'intentional killing/un-intentional killing' During our daily life, there are lots of un-intentional killings of living being - like when you inhale air, drink water, burn a fire etc. ( there is lots of references to this kind of killing within SGGS) and it is also referenced that it is waste of time to talk about these un-intentional killings, as it will happen and one shouldn't feel a sense of guilt. At the same time, 'intentional killing' is not acceptable and you will find lots of references within SGGS. I am no expert on religion and please forgive me if I have shown ignorance on any of these topics – I just wanted to share my honest thoughts – with the global Saadh Sangat – to my understanding is part of Sikh religion – to share your honest thoughts and clear your doubts among the seekers. |
prithi pal
said:
| guru fateh, a good debate started by harpal singh and equally intresting contributions by mohinder singh, balwinder singh and others. What is SGPC doing,Harpal wants to know, and as a sikh he has every right to ask this question. My answer is SGPC has been captured by bunch of semi literate people who have no knowldge of sikhism and are just there for sake of power and money.Otherwise how is it possible that those very people who are dutybound to sprad the religion have their children hair cut. Akali Dal which controls SGPC is in turn cntrolled by one family headed by 85 year old Prakash Singh Badal and his henchmen.They are just destroying sikhism and it is now left to individuals like mohinder singh,harpal singh,balwinder singh to come forward and save sikhism. Don't expect anything from Badal family and SGPC they are another version of patits. |
Annonymous
said:
| It is easy to question an authority such as SGPC. The thing to do is literate people who choose people in SGPC. It is easy to establish democracy anywhere in the world, the hard part is to hold democracy. The key to democracy is literation. How many of us try to read SGGS? How many do nitnem? |
Harpal Singh
said:
| So far, I failed to understand how democracy works in Punjab/within SGPC - to me it seems to be a mafia setup. One person stays as President of SGPC for such a long duration, only selected families rule Punjab - do you call it a TRUE democracy. Moreover, the question is not who reads SGGS/nitnem, what understanding do we have of SGGS/nitenem - how much we try to follow the path our Gurujis have shown us. There is no difference between the word referenced within SGGS for Pundits/Brahmins and current Sikhs who only insists on just reading SGGS/nitnem and similar rituals. Please note that I am not against reciting Gurbani - but the attached rituals are meaningless. |
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